This thread and the one before it were brought to
my attention but since I was moving and the computer was down I couldn't respond.  I'd like
to thank the people who defended my parties and the protocol.  I care very much about this
particular community and I will do what I can to help keep things fun and my intentions
clear.

Some very valid points were made and I'd like to comment for myself.  Nothing
below is in any order. I just made a few notes as I read the most of the posts. Keep in mind
that my parties are not general community parties. They are designed to appeal
to a group of people with a limited interest.There are scene events all over New
York City at which my rules are not in effect. I am not trying to stop people from
indulging in what they enjoy and need, I am just hosting parties for people
(and there are a lot of them) whose interests are more specific.

As usual Plus4dbu (Mike) does an eloquent job of rephrasing my thinking.   I say
it one way and he spells it out from a male perspective.   He's been doing this for years
and when he finally gets it right I might stop spanking him.   Like he said, the discussion
of the guidelines surfaces before every party I have.

Ian, you're right, my rules are strange and do seem negative.  It's a shame I
have to spell it out so clearly but _each_ one of those guidelines can be traced back to an
incident where a scene player, either a top or bottom,  tried to push the envelope.  Some people
have no common sense or manners so I spell it out very clearly.  It avoids problems as
the evening progresses.  Not long ago I was openly criticized on a post 'for not being
clear'.  (Banging my head on the wall... again... and again)   Originally, the only guidelines I
used were "nonsexual" and "no leather".  I thought that said it all but apparently not.
If you look at any scene protocol you'll see that most of it is similar to "Everything I need to
know about life I learned in kindergarten".... wash your hands, bathe daily, don't play with other
people's toys, keep your hands to yourself and show respect for others.  Children understand
these things.

I'd like to add here that New Yorkers are known for being rather pushy about the
things they want.  (Especially if bare bottoms might be involved) They are an aggressive
lot, God bless them, and it's in their culture to 'go for it' and take no prisoners.  Theirs is
not a laid back lifestyle, which people tend to forget when reading my party guidelines.  Gentle
hints don't always work.  Repeated, blunt and straight faced "NO's" might... maybe... if the
moon and stars line up on the right angle.

I wish my critics would read my site more carefully.  Read between the lines and
you'll see what I'm trying to create.  Don't take the rules personally but look at the
problems I'm trying to avoid.  I care dearly for "my clientele" as Ian phrased it but who are my
clientele?  They are new players, specifically women, and players with vanilla spouses.  It's
very intimidating for women to come into the city alone for adult entertainment.  I
make it as comforting as I can so they will drive in from the suburbs.  The socials are
always held during daylight saving time and begin at 5.  If I know a particular new female
is coming I will see that someone meets her at the door.  I will introduce her to others
until she gets a feel for things.  If plan A doesn't work I move on to B, then C until she comes
to terms with her needs and can verbalize what's going on in her head.  That's my job.  That's
what I do.

Living in a relationship with a vanilla spouse, a person who just doesn't get
it, is a painful experience.  I've done it.  Most scene parties are just too much for them.  By
softening the experience, by reaching out a hand and including them I/we can save a marriage
(and a family).  Not understanding the simplicity of dominance, submission and spanking
is a very silly reason to break up a family.

As to why I charge men more than women I don't think I'm doing anything
differently then the clubs.  Of course the best things in life are free but anything worth having (or
doing) is worth paying for.  Adult entertaining (and advertising) can get expensive.  A
regular night, starting at 10 PM, at a club for a man is $30 (?) and a woman pays $5. My prices
are a little more but I start at 5 or 7:00 PM.   It's not that I charge the men more but
rather that I give women a discount, or another incentive, to show up.  New York City is an
expensive place to entertain.  It's not cheap and whatever comes in is split with the club.
They get half the door.  Private studios charge a minimum of $500 no matter how many people show up.  Men have more disposable income than women (according to  the Department of Labor statistics).  Men are also more willing to indulge themselves with adult
entertainment than women.  It's changing but many women are still in denial as to what really
brings them pleasure.  With all that said it would make good business sense to aim my
business, or my clientele, towards men... where the money is, but I don't.  If it was money I
wanted I would. I aim my parties towards women.  It isn't anything I can explain here and now
but it's something I needed to do for myself.

"She allows F/f spanking but not M/m spanking".  It's a contradiction but it's
also my party. Like a lot of people, I have a problem with M/m spanking.  I don't have a
logical reason for it and I don't know that I have to find one.  Like everyone else I have my
limits and M/m spanking is one of them.  Some very nice, heterosexual players will leave if
they see it and the people with vanilla spouses won't even show up.  Somehow the use of the word "heterosexual" seems outdated but then I never claimed to be fashionable.  I am
what I am and I have parties to celebrate that.  I only have to look at the attendance to
see I'm not alone.

"She is in denial as to spanking being erotic."  On the contrary, I've climbed
that mountain several times and find it most enjoyable. (sigh)  I just happen to regard it as
a very private activity, no different than intercourse.  I was the first one to identify, or
separate, five styles of spanking, erotic being one of them.  I gave a talk in 1994 to an S&M group and I could see that people with an erotic approach to spanking weren't understanding other styles.  I came up with a 'flow chart', of all things, to illustrate my thoughts.  It's on
my site under "Spanking Possibilities".  It seems like old news now but at the time
old-fashioned, over-the-knee, non-sexual, platonic, domestic spanking was not a common topic
within the NY scene. I'm a believer that some things are best kept in private and it's
nobody's business.  I always make it clear at my parties that what people do before and
after a gathering is their business and I'm not interested.  I don't care if it's homo,
hetero, or with their pet canary.  Just not at my parties.  I have parties so people can have
time to meet, spank, learn, play, find acceptance and have fun.  You can get down and dirty
any other time, just not at a private party of mine.

Regarding marks and bruises... try to remember I constantly have new people
coming in the door.  Signs of anything abusive would be a frightening sight for them and
especially for a vanilla partner tying to cope.  There are many people who are long time players
who find bruises a complete turn off.  Marks happen, especially when the player is new,
but I don't want to entertain things that get rough.  Since my parties are private that's my
choice.  I'm also a firm believer that the best part of a spanking is the mental, not the
physical.

Large bags - (Don't take it personally, I'm referring to oversized, implement
carriers)  These clubs are dark and my parties are well attended.  People trip over huge bags
left lying around.  Since I try to be aware of the needs of  women I know for a fact that
many a nylon stocking got ruined from a cane sticking out of the top of a bag.  Also, if
you've ever been in New York, Lord only knows what's in the brown paper bags.  Finally,  I enjoy focusing on old-fashioned, rather basic spanking.  A simple hand, paddle or hairbrush is
enough.  A great spanking is mostly anticipation and meaningful conversation anyway, so I
don't know that an arsenal of toys is necessary for what I'm looking to entertain.

"No vendors" is a rule because I want to focus on spanking and all the sweet
dramas that come with setting up a good moment.  When vendors are around the topic turns
from spanking to buying.  Conversations go from "I think somebody needs to be over my
knee" to " have you tried my cherry wood paddle with the motorized handle?  The newer
model comes with batteries."  Of course I'm exaggerating... no wait, no I'm not.  I
have a few products of my own but they're not particularly expensive.  If the party's going
to be on the busy side I don't even bother bringing the items along.  Again, this is another
place where the money is and I haven't done too much in that area yet.  Maybe next year.  I
have a new car to pay for.  My '93 Ford died in my arms in the dealer's lot so  I bought a
white lace Bentley with all those big SCONY profits.

As for dress code.... I am a believer that people will behave a tad better when
they are asked to dress up.  Overly casual clothes can make for overly casual behavior.
I want to give the message that "this is special" because it is.  This is a deep-seated
need people have and I want people to be a little 'on their toes' and aware of good manners.
Women are having their undies pulled down (if they consent) and I don't want anyone to
think for a moment that this is to be taken lightly.  The ladies are vulnerable and I'll
take any steps I can, including a dress code, to keep things special.  This is NYC on a Saturday
night.  It's a dressy time around here.  Also, there is a culture of men who come into the city
early on Saturdays in shabby outfits and comb all the porno shops during the day.  In the
evening they'll come in off the street into the clubs.  If you lived here you'd know
what I'm talking about.  These men aren't players... they don't talk and they smell
funny.  They just walk around, plastic shopping bag in hand, making rattling noises and staring at
people. They are affectionately known as " the weenie whackers".   They have no idea
what "keep a respectful distance from an scene" means and will literally stand within inches
of anything they want.  By having a little dress code I can illuminate most of the cretins
of the night that would bring their weirdness to a nice gathering.  Again, it's another level to
protect the ladies and newcomers.  Yes, Mike, I am trying to promote a "cultured kind of
atmosphere". I think that's a fun thing to do with spanking.

No flannel shirts/T shirts/BB caps - Again, read above about the men who come
into the city for the day.  Don't assume by that rule that I mean men either.  It was written
at a time when a group of women came in that looked like they just jumped off the last freight
train from hell.  I'm as particular with the women as I can be with the men.  One of my
dearest friends, a bottom, loves to dress in very sexy clothes.  She also is rather fussy about
who touches her and how.  She came to one of my parties after a shopping spree to all the fetish
stores.  An awful lot of skin was showing that night but I let it pass... until I got her
later.  She was bare bottomed, in tears and over my lap when I asked her, "What kind of a message are you sending to new people who think my parties are different?  Just who is supposed to protect you when a creep grabs one of your headlights?"  Of course she got what she really wanted but she also knew I was serious.  That's my style.  That's what I do.

The rule about women wearing a thong is obvious.  The women are there to spank,
be spanked and relax.  It's hard to have a good time when a dozen men stand around
and stare at "the rosebud".  I don't ask the men to wear a thong because the women keep their
eyes in their heads and take time to blink.  If alcohol is being sold it's the law that
everyone has to have all private areas covered.

Regarding all my protocol and guidelines, I've done my homework.  Everything...
everything I do regarding spanking is from experience, asking question and interviewing.  I
never 'shoot from the hip' or assume anything.  I run all my thoughts and articles past other
participants before I post.  I have conducted hundreds of interviews where I picked common
interests and concerns and pulled together a community which really didn't have too many
outlets for fun around New York.  I began my research in Washington then moved to New York.
The answers with the interviews remained the same, as did the problems with
acceptance within the scene.  There is a large group of people out there that have one toe in the
vanilla world and one very timid toe in the spanking world.  There wasn't a facilitator around
here so I stepped up to the plate.  There are days I wonder why on earth I did because
I've been taking on the chin, from several directions, ever since.  I heard an actress say
in an interview, "Make up your mind what you want to do then do it like Hercules."
The actress never mentioned how mean people can be when you make that choice.  One time my
sweetie, Tom, (my top) called me a "visionary".  Well poop,  sometimes it's
easier to be blind.

Yes, Ian, lest you think I get too full of myself, I have some male tops in my
life that I adore.  They've been doing this for years.  They're wonderful and
they have no problems disagreeing with me.  It just doesn't happen very often.
They are the source of much of my experience.  It's not often I admit to switching because it invites big problems.  However, I'm proud of the fact I can switch, even if it's only with a very small number.  It allows me the space to see both sides and verbalize the responsibilities of tops and bottoms.

Just so you know, whenever there is an unpleasant scene (which isn't often) the
first person I go to is the female.  I take her aside and let her talk.  When she's finished I
simply ask, "Did you use your safe words?" "I didn't want to hurt his feelings."
"So your feelings don't count?  How is he supposed to read your mind?"
"Well, I wasn't sure if he...." "Did you read the guidelines posted all over the walls and on my site?"

If, however, the male top didn't respect her safe words he's the one who needs
to be enlightened.  I could do it but I'd rather a group of us coach her as to how to
handle the situation herself.  Its very affective when a male tops knows a group of us are
silently backing her up.  They get the hint and don't come around any more.

I have a tremendous amount of respect for all the different interests in the
scene.  Way back I experimented with most of them but I always came back to old-fashioned
spanking.  I tried to make all that stuff work for me but it just didn't.  I felt like a freak
among freaks so I started my own thing and found I wasn't alone.  SCONY originally was a group of people that I saw regularly for little parties.  The group got larger and larger and I
saw that we had a legitimate right to be recognized as a group within the NY scene.  Once I
start collecting money I was operating as a business and a target for the tax people.  It was the
legal and right thing to do when I incorporated.  I NEVER expected to take that step but
life is much easier when you operate within the law.  I run a privately owned small business,
no different than a local card shop or  restaurant.   It wouldn't be polite to walk
in and tell them how to operate so I don't know why people think it's okay to do that with me.  I
have a little corporation and I'm the CEO.  Rarely does somthing wonderful come expediently
out of a committee, so I didn't go that route.  I have goals, limits, and needs
like everyone else.  I have every reason to expect that my needs be respected
because that's part of being in the community.   My private little business was
a happy accident that worked.  When it doesn't I'll do something else.

There is a time and place for everything.  You don't go into a Chinese
restaurant an order spaghetti.  You don't wear picnic clothes to a funeral.  You don't go to a
private spanking party and impose needs that may be beyond the limits of the host.  In the New
York area there are so many venues that people have the choice to go elsewhere.  That's
the beauty of a free society.  My goal is not to insult anyone if their needs are different than
mine.  I understand and respect many things.  I just don't choose to entertain all of
them.  Entertaining is a big responsibility and I have a limit as to how far I want to go.  I think
it's realistic to want to have a good time at my own parties.  Not all things are enjoyable to me
so I keep my distance from things that aren't for me.

I got a little down in the mouth when I read the post about me which said, "
she's too uppity or her own good" and the "religion of customer care seems to have passed her
by".  I try to please as many people as I can but my critics _always_ come from the same
arena... male tops.  Usually male tops that wear black leather but always male tops with a
unique self image.  There's a message in there.  Male tops are the very best and very worst
of my life in the scene.  We live in a time when people don't want to hear 'No'.  The word is
not an evil one.  It's just a very clear, simple, and fair way to draw boundaries and set
limits.  When it comes to a person's body or their private fantasies any individual (or group)
has a right to set  limits.   All of us do it every day.  If my approach to a spanking party is
unique that doesn't make me a bad person.  It just makes my party different.  I cannot
imagine why someone thousands of miles away from me would want to invest negative energy to
argue that.  (Again, banging my head against the wall.... oops there goes the pink hat
with white netting and lace trim).  Now see, Ian, look what you made me do.

I hope my post explained a few things.  Best wishes and happy spanking.

Sincerely,
Margaret Davis
 
 

COMMENTS FROM OTHER NEWSGROUP REGULARS:

Courtney wrote:

Ms, Margaret and Tom,
>
> Thank you for stepping in and addressing the many questions from folks who
> don't know you--or are familiar with your parties.
>
> It will always be a matter of different tastes of the kinds of scenes one
> expects and fantasies about.
> And sometimes you can explain your rationale of rules and etiquette till the
> cows come home, but till people find out for themselves, the point can be moot.
>
> Again, thanks Margaret and Tom for providing the opportunity for many of us to
> experience spanking first hand! :)
> There are do's and don't's, just like real life.
>
> Some rules are for the good of the whole--not necessarily for the individual.
>
> But at least with these parties as a kick off point, the individual now has a
> venue to meet more people, and then, if all goes well, her or she may have the
> springboard to go on to the 'individual/private' play.
>
> Safe. Sane. Consenual. Isn't that what we're all looking for when meeting
> strangers for the first time? A place where we can let go a little...to find
> out how far we want to go (later) if we want to let go a LOT?  :)
>
> My thoughts from the Soap Box--again.
>
> Courtney
 

Mrs. Mish wrote:

 You tell 'em, Margaret!  It's YOUR party and you can spank who you want to.
>
> Hmm...I feel a song coming on...I may get spanked for this, but here goes:
>
> (With apologies to Leslie Gore!)
>
> It's my party and I'll spank who I want to
> Spank how I want to
> Spank when I want to
> I will spank you 'cos it's what I do!
>
> Nobody knows how much static I get
> Just because of my style
> But once you're over my knee
> You'll have a reason to smile.
>
> It's my party and I'll spank who I want to
> Spank how I want to
> Spank when I want to
> I will spank you 'cos it's what I do!
>
> Using my paddle and playing all night
> Having some fun can't be wrong.
> I'll hand the ladies over to Tom
> As long as they're wearing a thong!
>
> It's my party and I'll spank who I want to
> Spank how I want to
> Spank when I want to
> I will spank you 'cos it's what I do!
>
> A couple of fellas just walked through the door
> Two grubby, unshaven pals.
> Tom firmly gives them the gate
> OOPS!  They're actually gals!
>
> It's my party and I'll spank who I want to
> Spank how I want to
> Spank when I want to
> I will spank you 'cos it's what I do!
 

Sspark wrote:

Thanks for taking the time to respond to
> this thread.  I'm looking forward to seeing you, Tom and all my SCONY friends on
> the 21st.
>
> Again, these parties are great fun and I wish I could attend every
> single SCONY event.  Margaret and Tom are gracious hosts and the atmosphere at
> the parties I attended was safe and laid-back--rather like a very civilized
> cocktail party with bare bottoms and lots of percussion :-) .
>
> Thanks again, Margaret!
 

Bum-up wrote:

Well put, and what I'd have expected from the "Miss Manners" of our
> little community. ;>
>
> <ducking and running before Ms. Margaret can get me with her hairbrush
> for that one>
>
> Seriously, this was an excellent answer to a few good questions, and
> some more I think were more argumentative than enlightening.  I find
> that people who have not had to manage a community, be it in real life
> or online, often don't understand that sometimes you need to make a
> rule about things that, in an ideal world, would be obvious to anyone
> with two brain cells to rub together.
>
> People who have a few basic social skills and care about the feelings
> of those around them often have a hard time understanding the need for
> rules that amount to, "Don't be obnoxious."  They'd never dream of
> being genuinely obnoxious (as opposed to cutely bratty, of course, and
> this includes some of you Dom(me)s as well). ;> I find that such folks
> often don't see the need for a rule to tell them not to do something
> they'd never dream of doing in the first place.
>
> Unfortunately not everyone has social skills.  Not everyone learned
> good manners at home.  Others who did learn good manners at home often
> still don't know the "manners" of a particular local community or
> area.  (This small town suth'n girl was a bit taken aback by New York
> the first time she visited, before she figured out that New Yorker's
> aren't rude, just =VERY= direct.) ;>
>
> Finally, there are those who know good manners, but choose not to act
> accordingly.  (I think this last group is technically referred to as
> "jerks".) :/
>
> Not too many months ago I was brand new to the spanko community, and
> none too sure what the rules were in this strange new place.  People
> who took the time to explain things like Safe/Sane/Consensual, to
> organize groups where I could meet fellow spankos safely, and to
> develop a "vocabulary" to describe exactly what it is we are doing
> here (as much as it can be described, of course) made the transition a
> whole lot easier for me.
>
> Although she's on the other side of the country, Ms. Margaret stands
> out as one of the people who helped me find what I wanted and needed
> here.  Her web site is wonderful, and her posts here (less frequent
> than I'd like) are always worth reading.  Since my interest is
> traditional spanking, it was wonderful to have someone prominent in
> the community who likes the same thing.  (Nothing against the D/s
> folks or serious BDSM'ers -- my tastes are just a bit different.)
>
> I don't know if I ever got around to sending Ms. Margaret a thank-you
> email, so I'll say it here.  (And send an email -- wouldn't want to
> disappoint Ms. Margaret =OR= Miss Manners.) ;>
>

Rose Blush wrote:

It certainly sounds to me, based on the testimonials I've
> heard here, that you're doing something that a lot of people
> enjoy very much. You shouldn't feel you need to defend
> yourself.
>
> It seems to be a Usenet thing - not unique to this group, by
> any means - that mere difference of opinion can come across
> as something more than that, leading to misunderstandings
> and hurt feelings. What seems to have happened here is that
> one or two people picked up a "vibe" from your list of
> guidelines that you did not intend to convey. People voiced
> their opinions based on the information they had - nothing
> wrong with that. Several more people, who know you better,
> then explained that this perceived "vibe" was incorrect, and
> that you were in fact a very nice person who is making a
> valuable contribution to the community. 'Nuff said. Problem
> solved.
>
>----<snip>----
>
> Here's how I see it: Suppose I throw a big spanking party
> and I tell everyone it's only open to 25-year-old submissive
> Ben Affleck lookalikes, and toppish women who look like
> Granny on the Beverly Hillbillies. I would absolutely
> reserve the right to set the rules under which people attend
> my party. I would also be absolutely fine with other people
> thinking that one, some, or all of my rules suck. It
> wouldn't occur to me to feel I needed to defend myself. That
> would be like being offended because someone didn't happen
> to share my particular kink.
>
----<snip>----